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Fight, Flight or Boundary

Hey guys, welcome back. Today we are talking about a super important topic not just for your professional life, but also for your personal life. Today we are going to be talking with Barb. Barb is a boundaries coach and the founder and CEO of higher power coaching and consulting. As a former addict and people pleasing rescuer, she empowers people to live their lives on purpose by coaching them to form healthy boundaries between their personal and professional lives.

All right, Barb, thank you so much for joining. I have been so excited. I've kept an eye on my calendar. And I've been so excited to talk with you, you know, late this evening for you. So why don't you just jump right in and explain kind of who you are and what you do. 

So my name is Barb Nangle. I'm the founder and CEO of Higher Power Coaching and Consulting and I am a boundaries coach, and I am also a podcaster. And I am the host of fragmented to whole life lessons from 12 step recovery, and I have now 157 episodes. 

Wow, congratulations, milestone. 

That is yes. 

So do you have weekly episodes? Or how long has it taken you to do to do the 157. 

So I started it. So it's been three years. So I do them weekly. They're mostly 10 to 20 minute episodes of me sharing my recovery. We call it our experience, strength and hope. And then when I got to Episode 100, I decided to celebrate by having some guests and that went over well, so I decided Every 10th episode I have. Yeah, so those are a little bit longer. Yeah. Um, but yeah, and I, in the beginning, wasn't sure I'd have enough content. And I have like pages of ideas, and they're never ending. 

I always, you know, I look back at some of the recordings and whatnot from the podcasting. And I always feel so powerful, like, it's so empowered and energetic after recording podcasts. And, you know, I look at some of the screenshots and stuff that you can just. It's like truly enjoying and just kind of living in the moment I have fallen in love with podcasting.  

Yeah, me too. 

Interesting perspective. 

Why I love Podcasting.
I would actually love to tell you a little story about the love of podcasting, if you don't mind. So I'm 59 and when I was probably about 20, I started listening to books on tape when they were cassettes, and I had to carry the tape player with me. And I would do it when I was exercising as a way to get me to exercise and since day one of listening to books on tape, I had wanted to narrate audiobooks, and I never could figure out how to do it and at one point for five years, I volunteered for reading for the Blind and Dyslexic because I was like, I don't know how it's gonna happen. And then I was working in a co working place a few years ago, and somebody told me she was narrating audiobooks and I was like, Oh my God, how are you doing that? I want to do that. So she said buy this book. And I bought the book and I read it and I downloaded audacity and I bought the microphone about the earphones and I started narrating audiobooks and it was like a lot of work that had nothing to do with narrating audiobooks. In the meantime, this guy I do in town approached me about doing the sales for he wanted to start a podcasting channel and so I was like no, but I will do a pitch because he was doing a podcasting pitch event. And so I started podcasting and I realize I hate narrating audiobooks and then in the last year like three different times I got the message from different people that desire is planted in you for a reason the universe planted desire in you for a reason. And that desire is going to come out somewhere maybe not in you but this is why certain multiple people will invent the same thing at the same time. And after I heard that I was like oh my god here's what happened the universe planted the desire for podcasting in me at 20 but podcasting didn't exist so its disguise did.

Narrating audiobooks How cool is that? Oh, that's incredible. You know, I love listening to audiobooks and I guess I never really thought about the connection. I listened to podcasts. You know, I've always I think it was late to join the podcast wagon everybody's like oh podcast and this and not enough like, I don't really know what this is about. And I think you know, it was probably like a year late to the podcast party. And then once I discovered podcasts, it's like going down a rabbit hole. 

Yeah, it's hard for me to read now or even listen to books on tape, because I'm so into podcasts. You know, I can listen to a whole I mean, I don't necessarily listen to a whole episode at a time. I mean, I often don't. But I just, you know, I'll find somebody. I'm like, oh, I want to binge listen to this person that people are like, Yeah, listen to this podcast. I'm like, and we'll have time because I have my 15 other buckets. 

Yeah, totally. Yeah, really. It's funny how we find along our journey, we find these little pockets of things that we didn't know. We didn't know that we loved and then it's, you know, you do it as part of something else. And then you realize, hey, this is really great. Yeah, yeah. Awesome. So you've got your podcast, and you've got your coaching. And who would you say your audience is? 

So it turns out, it's mostly women, I would say from like, 30 to like 60. And they are people pleasers. Rescuers, fixers savers, people who accommodate other people usually neglect themselves are burnt out. You know, my ideal client is someone who is ripe for change, like they're, they started to realize, Oh, I'm the one that needs to change, as opposed to it's like, well, if everybody would, because I used to be like, well, you know, if everybody would just do things my way, but it would be, you know, the world would be a better place, and it doesn't really work like that. 

Right? Right. Now, often if I think of a lot of the very talented, you know, who I would consider quite successful, I feel like being a people pleaser, and I'm going to be honest, I fall right into that category. So correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like pleasing people is part of delivering that exceptional customer service. And so I'm sure there's a way to find balance. I'm not sure that I have found the balance bar. And I think that's why I was so interested in you know, chatting with you today and sharing this because I run into it all the time, this boundaries, the concept of boundaries. I think that the shifts recently in the world, everybody, you know, is working more, everyone's working from home. Everyone's working anywhere and everywhere on the phone all the time. Boundaries are a bit of a loose situation. 

The Toastmasters
Yeah. So not everyone is doing that, for example. I'm not right. Okay. Great. You know, and there are people who are not, but there are lots of people I was actually I'm in Toastmasters and I was in Toastmasters today, and several people were talking about one reason why it's so hard to come to meetings is because it used to be that when someone would just send you an email, now they're like, let's have a Zoom meeting. And they don't even care that you didn't have another meeting. But um, you know, I would say, like, the word that got me to understand that I needed to go into recovery was the word codependent. I had never heard of it before. A codependent person is someone who is really reliant on that which is outside themselves. So either other people's opinions or, you know, they're always checking in out there rather than in here. And codependents make fantastic employees. Because they go above and beyond the call of duty, they're conscientious, they care so much what other people think they they've burned themselves out. So in the short term, they're really good employees. I used to be a really good employee, you know, but I was also resentful as hell, because people took advantage of me, but they're not taking advantage of me when I'm volunteering for that sort of thing. So the way that when I coach my clients, we always start with, what are your top three to five values? What are the most important things to you and your life, because that is going to help you decide when and where to set boundaries. Because learning how to set boundaries is about learning to live your life on purpose, you basically go, Okay, this is how I want to live my life. And then you tell other people, that's what boundaries are. So if you say, my family's really important to me, but you never spend any time with your family, you're not living in line with your values. So maybe, in theory, your family's really important to you, but that's not how you're living your life. And one of the reasons we feel so yucky when we don't have healthy boundaries is because we're not living in line with our values. And so the reason I have you think through your values first is when you start setting boundaries, that's what tells you, okay, if I really do want to spend time with my family, then that means I'm not working every single weekend. That means I am having dinner with my family from time to time. So that means either I'm not going to take, you know, work phone calls in the evenings, or I'm not going to check work email on the weekend, or whatever. So you get to decide how you want to live your life, if you want to have the kind of life where you're checking emails at work, you know, from work and the weekend, or taking calls a night, that's perfectly acceptable, if you aren't using it, if you're doing it, because you feel like you have to, or because you think people are gonna think you're a bad employee. That's not good. And it doesn't mean you have to change it right now. But it means you want to take a look at that and decide, like, is this how I really want to live?

Right. Right. Yeah. Helpful. It is. And, you know, it's, it kind of comes back to, you know, on a broader on a bigger picture. One of the things I often say when we're talking about business processes and systems is what is the objective? And really hear it's what the values are and bring it right back to that root? Core piece? Because it's often well, you know, should I do this? Or should I do that? And it's okay, well, what is the actual objective? Because you could do both? Could do neither. And so why are we even having this discussion? And so I think that, that it is always, you know, really diving into why, what is the value? What is the objective? Any of the decisions that we're making? 

Right? Yeah. 

It's, I think it's tough to create boundaries, if you haven't, and you're not, and Uri, and you. So you're trying to create a new precedent, if you will, you know, you've kind of gone and taken this time to say, hey, I really think I need to, you know, work on this and make some shifts. And so but, but sometimes those who have benefited perhaps from the lack of boundaries struggle a bit when you start.

Of course. Yes. 

Yes and then, you know, if you're not, if it's not something that you've practiced, and when you get that pushback you're sorry, sorry, you're right. Sorry, that was totally out of line. And so how do you work through that transitional piece because that can be a real challenge, right? 

Hard Part
That's it, that's the key right there. That's the hardest part. And the hardest part is really the feelings that come up for you when you go to set the boundary for the first time. So, you know, I didn't really say anything about myself. But you know, I alluded to the former like people pleaser rescuer, fixer codependent kind of person. And so I went through the process of never having boundaries, and setting boundaries. And I gotta tell you, Tiffany-Ann, I felt like I was going to die. Here's the thing. I didn't die. And now, I have started setting boundaries. When I got into 12 step recovery. And I was lucky enough that I started, I did the 12 steps of recovery the first time with a small group of women. So we were all going through this together. And it was like they were metaphorically and sometimes literally holding my hand. And I have to tell you, I didn't realize until maybe a couple years later how important it was having those women doing it with me, because they were cheering me on. They were telling me this is the right thing to do. 

They were telling me it is not selfish. And I'll tell you one of the first boundaries I remember setting was I had this ex boyfriend we had broken up for like eight or nine months. And he would still occasionally email me. And so let's say I'm at work, and I go to check my personal email for some legitimate reason. And I see an email from him. Well, I felt compelled to open it and respond immediately. And then I got mad at him for the quote, interrupting my day. And it took me a while to realize, wait a minute, he's not interrupting me, I'm doing that. And I didn't know I like this sounds dumb. But if you're anything like I was, you get it. I didn't know that I didn't have to open that email. So for me, the first boundary was don't open the email right away. And I started to think of it as I don't have the psychic space to open the email right now. So for me learning to set boundaries with my cell phone was the place to start. 

That doesn't mean that the feelings are not going to come up. But this is where the girlfriends came in really handy. Yes. You know, to say like, you know, have you ever thought of not opening the email and calling me now? Or like call me so like, I call them like, you're not going to leave so I feel like I'm going to die. But I'm not going to open this email from my ex. My ex boyfriend that my current boyfriend, my ex boyfriend, right because what is he going to think of me you know. And so it started with don't open the email until I have the psychic space, then it was, don't, even when you do open it, you don't have to respond immediately. So pausing pausing is actually my number one tool of recovery because I can't use any of the other tools, so pausing and allowing myself to like breathe and relax, because when I can breathe and relax, I'm telling my body I'm safe when I'm all stressed out like that I'm in fight or flight mode, which means I can't think clearly because our frontal lobe is cut off when we're in fight or flight mode, which means we're supposed to fight or flee, we're not supposed to think. Right? So when I calm down, I can think and I can use my thinking brain and rationally make a decision about what I'm going to do. 

Take care of yourself
So waiting to open the email, waiting to respond to the email, and then eventually deciding not to respond to some of the emails. And then I finally texted him and said, You know, I wish you all the best, I am not interested in any kind of relationship. It took me two years after that, to even think about whether I should block him or I could block him, he would still message me, and I would just not open it. And I would delete it. And then I was like, Oh my God, why don't I block him. So the boundary got easier over time. But it also took me a long time to sink in to understand you know what I could do. And I think that this process that I went through is what makes me such a good boundaries coach, because I know what it feels like in my body to not have healthy boundaries. Right, I know what it feels like in my body to feel like, I'm gonna die from not opening an email from someone. And I know what it feels like to have peace and serenity and to live my life on purpose, with healthy boundaries. And I will tell you something, Tiffany-Ann. I give way more service to my community than I ever did before I was a volunteer at Holic before I got into recovery. And when I first started recovery, I was like, You know what, I'm quitting everything, you know, I'm gonna volunteer for Barb. And I did think that was selfish. But here's the thing. Taking care of yourself is actually selfless, because I know, Fill my cup first. And I have so much more to give. 

So if I take care of myself, you don't have to. And I have so much more to give. So I give from a place of abundance rather than a place of lack. And when I say yes to you, you know that I'd mean it. And when I say no, you know that I mean it. And I can tell you all the time people tell me, I trust you bar. I know you're going to tell me the truth. And so I would say that is good customer service. You know, I think I used to think I was nice. Well, here's the thing, nice, is not anywhere near as important as kind, kind people tell the truth? They say yes. When they mean yes, they say no. When they mean no, they say, I don't really care for that. Thank you, as opposed to being like, oh, yeah, we'll have more or it's the list says when it's not great. So I think being kind is so much more important than being nice. 

So I think it is possible to give super good customer service. Now the transition from having no boundaries and bending over backwards for people. And then teaching them I'm not going to bend over backwards for any more that is difficult. And let's say you're a business owner, you know, I have worked with a number of entrepreneurs who have decided they had to learn to let certain clients go. It was very, very painful. But what they did was before they let those people go, they got new clients that they set boundaries with, they got to feel what that felt like and it was awful. So then they were like, Oh, I have positive reinforcement for doing this. I know that these people don't think that I'm meat or bad or whatever, because this is all they know. And so now they have clients that are paying them what they're worth, and they can afford both emotionally and financially to let go of the other clients.

Wow, that's incredibly powerful. It really is. So let's rewind a little bit back to the calming down and the right parts of the brain working and and I mean there's so many so many things. You know, in everything you just said, but let's go back to that one because that's the first one that I was like, oh, I want to know more about that. Okay, so we've got different parts of the brain, and we've gotten this fight or flight. And so we want to turn the fight or flight off and get back into using our brain correctly. What kinds of things can someone do at that moment? 

Yeah, you get in your body. Yeah, I'm gonna do it. So first take a deep breath, just catch your breath. Because usually what happens is, you feel this enormous pressure, like an elephant on your chest, and you're breathing, really shallowly. So when you start to be able to breathe, well take a nice, deep, several bold, deep breaths, you're basically sending a signal to your body, I'm safe. Another thing you can do is just get in your body in whatever way you need to do that. For me, I like connecting with my senses. So I might connect with each one of my senses separately, and then try to connect with them all at the same time, it's very hard. Like, I can definitely connect with four senses, that fifth one, it's like an eye, almost catching it. Another thing is to ground yourself, which to me, means if I'm standing, feel my feet on the floor on the ground, if I'm sitting on a couch, feel all the places where my body is physically touching, because what you're doing is getting present. 

Right? Okay? 

Right. And when you're in fight or flight mode, you're not really present, you're in like, the, you know, Danger Zone and not able to be present. So that's why the breath and the senses are so helpful, because you can't taste what's happening in your mouth when you're not present. You know, you can't feel your breath coming out of your nose when you're not present. 

Right. I remember a long time ago, being at the chiropractor, and he was trying to explain fight or flight to me, and how the effect on the adrenal system, I was probably like, 16. And I just remember him saying, you know, back in the stone age, you either got, you know, eaten by the tiger, or the tiger went away, but you did not indefinitely get chased by the tiger, your body is not designed to live in fight or flight, right? It's like an extended period of time. Right? Right. 

And that's what I was essentially doing before recovery. And one of the programs Ironman, we call it addiction to excitement, which could also be called addiction to fear addiction to chaos. And it means you know, I grew up in a dysfunctional family. So my system was little all the time. It was on fire all the time. And so for me, when I started getting calm, it was really foreign to me. And so what many of us do is we subconsciously do things to activate that system, because to us, life equals cortisol, adrenaline and need all that kind of stuff. And I remember one of the women that when I did the steps in that program, she had been sober from alcohol for 12 years before she got into this recovery program, that we were working together. And she started getting a measure of peace for the first time. And she literally said, What is this peace shit? Like it was so foreign to her that it was for, quote, boring. But when you get used to it, it's pretty soothing. To be honest with you, I mean, I love me now.

So to be honest how has it changed your life, you know, outside of business and coaching, the difference in the feeling when you're talking about you know, where you used to be. And now. 

Relationships

Probably the best way to talk about it is romantic relationships. So I've never been married, I've been in many relationships, I happen to be a heterosexual woman. So I'm attracted to men. So I've lived with several men. I've had a five year couple, five year relationships, a 10 year relationship, a bunch of 234 year relationships. Every fucking one of them was dysfunctional. I really had no idea how dysfunctional they were. And here's the thing. I blamed all my partners. Well, okay, here's the thing. I blame them for all the bad stuff. And I took credit for all the good stuff, which I now know is just crazy and ridiculous. And I am now in a super healthy, intimate, loving, fun, awesome relationship. I have been for three and a half years. And one of the things that attracted me the most about him initially was that he had really good boundaries. So what that means in the relationship is if he does something that even slightly bothers me, I tell him, and I tell them immediately because one of the things you have to learn how to do when you set boundaries is directly communicate to people. So I used to beat around the bush or imply things or tried to read people's mind or expected them to read my mind, but that denied that I expected them to read my mind. And now I say you know, please don't do that, please don't put that there. So everything gets nipped in the bud. I'm not building up resentment and then exploding like I did with the rest of my, with the rest of my partners. And it's, it's really interesting, there's so much that happens in my relationship now, where I'm in it, I'm doing whatever I'm doing with it, and I'm observing and going, Oh, my God, this would have been cool. We are different. You know, I realized now I was kind of always building a case against my partners. And I kind of had one foot out the door, I was always assuming this isn't gonna work out. So I just need to gather some evidence for why that's going to be and all that stuff. And it's just not happening now. I'm able to be present because I actually have a relationship that sets me up because I ask for what I want and need. I say no when I don't want to. I let him know if he does things that offend me. Here's another thing, this is amazing. I can ask for help. I never  ask people for help, I was the helper, the fixer, the rescue. And this is another thing and my step group is super helpful to work with other people learning how to ask for help. 

So one day, we were meeting and one of the women said, you know, I was really upset the other day, and I was gonna call you guys. And I talked myself out of it. It turned out, we're all like, Oh, my God, I keep talking myself out of calling you guys for help. So we said, we're not going to do that anymore. We're going to make a pact. And we're going to stop talking ourselves out of asking for help. And then none of us did it. None of us asked for help. I mean, eventually we did. That is how hard asking for help is, well, here's the thing, people with healthy boundaries, let good things in, they don't just keep bad things out. So they let good things like praise, and compliments and help and support in. So I actually asked my sweetheart to do things for me. And it was hard. In the beginning. I remember this one time. There's this restaurant that I really, I drove by all the time. It's this really fancy Italian restaurant here in New Haven. And I've always thought I really want to go there. And so one day, I'm driving on the highway, and there's a billboard for this restaurant. And I have this thought, I'm gonna ask Chuck to take me there. 

And I suddenly felt like crying. Is this and when I processed it with myself, I realized I felt ashamed for asking for what I wanted. I didn't even ask it yet. I thought about asking it. But here's the thing that's different. I actually asked him, I said, you know, and I painted it a little bit. I said some day, I would love for you to take me to tray Scality, it doesn't have to be anytime soon. And he goes, Oh, it's gonna be sewn in like four days later, he took me there, which was a mate of not only did he say yes, he did it really quickly. And it was such a lesson for me that maybe it's hard in the beginning, but he wants to help me, he wants me to tell him what I want. Another thing that we started doing so we've just had our we've been together for three and a half years, we've just had our fourth Christmas. A couple Christmases ago, I got this catalog and I wanted a whole bunch of things in it. But there are things I'm never going to buy for myself. So I just circled them all. And then one day, we were talking and he was like, you don't really know what to get you. And I said, Well, here's a whole bunch of things I circled. And the cool thing is, there's a wide range of prices. So you can spend whatever you want. And there's a whole bunch of items, don't get them all for me. And he had a field day with that because he gets to get me something that I want. He doesn't have to figure it out and then get in trouble for not reading my mind. And I get surprised because I forgot what I circled. You know, I've circled so many different things. And so that's what we're doing now. I can ask for what I want. And it feels really good.

So, what about the opposite situation? So I mean, that sounds fantastic. The you know, I think I almost think it's come from an early age and I'm thinking I mean, I have three kids and I think about you know almost the conditioning, if you will, that goes into I'll just say it's good at certain times, and I'm thinking oh no, you know if you're not supposed to really but at the same time you know that I mean, you're gonna disagree with me, but I'm gonna say I feel like you should at certain times just you know, smile and nod say something is good and whatnot. So, you know, now I'm rethinking that a little. But if I think it through, there have been lots of times where I have tried to put in a boundary or I, you know, worked with other people who have attempted to change a relationship with a customer or whatever and it blows up. And obviously in a customer situation, things can change. But if you are, you know, an employee working for an employer, and you don't actually want to leave, or you know, you have a family member or your you want to make this change, and the feedback isn't, isn't as positive, as you know that that wonderful experience, I'm sure that some people in your life, it will be. 

I've lost people. Yeah, I mean, I've definitely lost some people. And so having healthy boundaries is about having choices. So you get to decide how you want to live your life. So if you're working in a place, and you decide things aren't working for you anymore, and you go to set boundaries, and it's just not working and nobody's conforming, then do you really want to stay working in there, if these are new changes that you really feel are authentic to who you are. And that's what you need to feel like you're having a fulfilling life. And maybe you actually don't want to stay working? Or maybe you do want to leave? But if you really don't, then you get to decide what am I going to do about this? You know, if like me, my brother is a really good example, my brother is a very dysfunctional person. He you know, he loves to talk very, very loudly, he really kind of yells. He's very into politics, I stopped listening to the news like six years ago, it's just not good for my mental health. I don't want to talk about it, even though we agree politically. 

And he works in a pharmacy chain that he hates, and he loves customers, he loves his fellow employees, but he hates the business and all that stuff. I don't want to talk about that business. I don't want to talk about politics. And I really don't want to hear yelling. And I tried a number of times to say, you know, can we change the subject? Can you quiet down, I don't want to talk about politics. He's literally incapable of doing those, he just doesn't have it in him. So the boundary is that I spend a tiny little bit of time with him, and the window of time has gotten smaller and smaller and smaller. And the times in between have gotten larger and larger. And in fact, I actually haven't spoken to him. Since the pandemic, I saw him the weekend before the pandemic. And I haven't spoken to him since then. And it's okay with me because the amount of mental and emotional work I have to do to be around him is enormous. And I was used to that for 50 something years. It was just that's just what was and then I bitched and complained about him, when I started realizing Wait, I have a role to play here. I can do something about it. And when I tried to set boundaries with him, and he wasn't capable, then I had to realize, well, what can I do to help myself and my mental emotional health? I can close the window of time I spend with him. So spend no longer than an hour with him. And I can also spend it with him only a couple of times a year instead of four or five or six times a year. You know what I mean? So you get to decide if somebody is really important, and you really want to keep them in your life. What can you do to minimize them triggering you? That's the other thing about boundaries, you can't turn people into, like, I can't turn him into a quiet person who doesn't talk about politics. That's not possible. That's like the myth. 

When people come to me for boundaries coaching, they're like, I want to change the other people. No, that's no boundaries, or poor boundaries are for you. Right, so I can't turn them into something that they're not, but I can minimize the amount that they trigger me by putting different boundaries up in my life. Does that answer your question? 

It does. And I think the statement of you know, thinking about what is my role in this or, you know, what role do I play is, is really the key piece that comes back to that. What are your values now being present in this situation? I mean, it ties all so closely together and you know, what is my role in that? I think that there seems to be and maybe it's as you know, we've got you know, all these different pieces going on in life. There's you know, you turn on turning on the TV is a dangerous thing, but it's also in social media and a lot of people you know, social media is part of business and so you kind of get inundated with all of this out you know, extra negative content and information and whatnot. And I think that often, you get into some kind of social situation. And it's easy, you know, people used to talk about the weather. And now it's, you know, and I was raised that, you know, you don't talk about religion or politics at the table. And, and that is, I mean, that is clearly old fashioned these days. And so, you know, interesting to put that boundary audit and, and feel confident in that and say, no, like, this is I don't like this, and I want to change it. 

Yeah. I mean, I have to say, you know, my mental health is a priority now. And it never was before. 

So I'm a priority now. That's what I'm saying.  

I am a priority now. And so when people ask me, okay, what was it like? What happened, that you were able to go over? Shitty boundaries, or none to having healthy boundaries? And I think the core for me is that I have come to care more about what I think about me than what other people do. And so this doesn't mean that I don't care at all what other people think about me? Of course, I do. I mean, I was a people pleaser, for a reason. Like, I do care a lot about other people. I want to be kind of good and helpful to people, but not to my detriment. 

So what I mean is, it used to be that I would lie. So people pleasers are dishonest and manipulative. And I was like a gas too, when I learned that. So what I mean by that is, you're saying yes, when you mean, no, that's a lie. You are manipulating people, you are doing it because you want them to like, you know, I didn't know that in the beginning. But you're doing it because you don't want them to be mad at you. You want them to like you, you want them to think so that's called manipulation. Right? So being a people pleaser is not nice. It's dishonest and manipulative. So I've got to stop that, right. So I was willing to lie, and to corrupt my character to get you to like me. But I didn't like myself. So I didn't care. So I was willing to throw my personal integrity under the bus. So you would like me, I'm not willing to do that anymore. I care about my own personal integrity and honesty, his bottom line for me, like I'm not lying for anybody I'm not. It's not because I have to live in this skin. So I put what I think of me, and my personal integrity above what you think of me. So if  I might upset you.

The Truth
But I'll feel like I'm a good and decent person, because I told the truth. And that's what I'm going to do. And I want to say one other thing about that is people are afraid to hurt people's feelings. And I'm not advocating that you should purposely hurt people's feelings. But there's a difference between hurting someone and harming someone. And I love this metaphor of when you use a needle to take a splinter out of your finger, it might hurt you. But it doesn't turn you in fact, it heals you. Right, it might hurt you to drill you too. But it doesn't harm you, it heals you, well, it might hurt someone's feelings to set a boundary with them. But it doesn't harm them. In fact, it might heal your relationship with that, because you're telling them the truth about who you are, it will heal you for certain I mean, some relationships will not withstand you setting boundaries. 

That's just the facts. But it's going to heal you because you're going to be your authentic self, you're going to be living in line with your integrity. And for me, living in integrity means being whole. So I mentioned my podcast is fragmented to whole life lessons from 12 step recovery. And I named it that for the very reason because I think you know, I had all these different facades up these different fragmented pieces of me. And because I now have a woman whose integrity those pieces have integrated integrity into one coherent whole, the pieces of me that weren't authentic have gone away. And so now I can be rocked by things that happened to me, but I cannot be shattered by them the way that I used to, because I am whole and that also means for me another way to say I'm pole is I know who I am. I didn't really know who I was before, because I was a people pleaser. 

Wow. Wow. That's it. It's incredible. It really is. Yeah, the message is so powerful. So what is one tip you have for the audience that you know they can implement today? And is there going to, it's going to create impact tomorrow? 

Yeah, I would say keep the focus on yourself. And I mean that in four different ways. One, when you are in a situation, ask yourself, what do I really want here? What do I want? Need, like, think, feel like what do I want? I was, I never did that. to mind your own business. I used to give unsolicited advice all the time. If people ask you for your help, or your advice, go ahead. But if they don't, don't do it, three, what is my part and things? This is something such a blessing, I learned from, honestly, the most important gift I learned in recovery. What am I doing in this situation that is making it bad or worse? Or what could I do differently in the future. And then lastly, keeping the focus on myself also means taking good care of myself, letting in the good things I mentioned before, I've neglected the hell out of myself. And I have a very thorough morning and evening routine, to take good care of myself. I don't take meetings before nine o'clock in the morning, because I need my self care, like I would like once in a while. But I'm never going to go to a weekly meeting at 8am. Because I know I need a long runway into my day to take care of myself. So I can do the 50 gajillion things that I do, because I do a lot.

Yes, taking care of yourself first and giving yourself the best chance yes to do your best. 

Fill your cup first. 

So you can fill other people's help. Yes, such a good vision and explanation. So outside of the podcast, where can people connect with you? Where can they know, see and hear and feel your message? 

Yeah, so I love to hang out on Instagram. That's my favorite social media. I'm at higher power coaching. My website is higherpowercc.com. And I actually have a bunch of free stuff about boundaries on that site. So there's a menu that says My issue is and go to the one that says setting boundaries. And there's links to I've like 16 podcast episodes, specifically on boundaries. There's an article on free downloadable and all that kind of stuff on there. And then my podcast is also linked there. But you can also go to fragmented soul.com. And that'll get you to the podcast page. And it has links to every podcast outlet. So if you're like Spotify, Stitcher, or whatever, you can just click on it and it'll open up in your if you're on your phone, and it'll open up in your app. 

Fantastic. Fantastic. Well, thank you so much, Barb, I think that this has been incredibly valuable. 

Thank you. Great, great questions. You really got into a lot of nuances that, you know, not everybody does. And I'd love to know how you ask real questions like burning Tiffany-Ann questions. I loved it. It was great.

 Fantastic. Thank you. 

You're welcome.

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